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#21 DILLIGAF?!

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 04:16 PM

This is the biggest point that needs to be understood in this conversation. Anglers need to realize that this program isn't about generating revenue or pleasing any specific angler group, its about attempts to reverse the damage caused by years of pollution and development across the province. The return of Atlantic Salmon would be a huge benefit to the ecosystem in the same way that planting native tree's and wildflowers on your property is better than planting foreign varieties for native wildlife species.

 

People love to complain and mob mentality has taken over with the public opinion on the Atlantic stocking program. Instead of seeing people complain about the low numbers I am now seeing people complain about the terrible fight they give on trolling gear. Over the years I have seen a steady increases of reported catches during the fall steelhead run, this year I have seen a very good amount of reported catches out in the lake. 

Some tribs do have a good run of Atlantics...Don't really know which tribs are being stocked. but some east tribs had some pretty good run last year.


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#22 TI Redux

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 06:23 PM

This is the biggest point that needs to be understood in this conversation. Anglers need to realize that this program isn't about generating revenue or pleasing any specific angler group, its about attempts to reverse the damage caused by years of pollution and development across the province. The return of Atlantic Salmon would be a huge benefit to the ecosystem in the same way that planting native tree's and wildflowers on your property is better than planting foreign varieties for native wildlife species.

People love to complain and mob mentality has taken over with the public opinion on the Atlantic stocking program. Instead of seeing people complain about the low numbers I am now seeing people complain about the terrible fight they give on trolling gear. Over the years I have seen a steady increases of reported catches during the fall steelhead run, this year I have seen a very good amount of reported catches out in the lake.


Perfect
So let's stop the Atlantic salmon genocide.
Stock tens of millions coho , steel.
And continue the multiple river rehabilitation.
Win win for all .
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#23 Rain-bow

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 11:00 PM

The prospect of having a decent Atlantic salmon population is more exciting if one understands the opportunity that it creates for shore fisherman during the Summer. Other species of migrating salmonids have overlapping runs, and are almost completely absent from rivers and areas near shore during the Summer months.
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#24 Ibstacle

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 02:36 AM

The prospect of having a decent Atlantic salmon population is more exciting if one understands the opportunity that it creates for shore fisherman during the Summer. Other species of migrating salmonids have overlapping runs, and are almost completely absent from rivers and areas near shore during the Summer months.

 

okay so lets keep stocking millions of more atlantics and hope for the best


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#25 TI Redux

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 06:36 AM

The prospect of having a decent Atlantic salmon population is more exciting if one understands the opportunity that it creates for shore fisherman during the Summer. Other species of migrating salmonids have overlapping runs, and are almost completely absent from rivers and areas near shore during the Summer months.

That prospected hope died over 20 yrs ago.
Can't survive in 80° low flow summer water around here.
Final phase done 2020.
Hooray
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#26 Symmetre

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 03:38 PM

Some tribs do have a good run of Atlantics...Don't really know which tribs are being stocked. but some east tribs had some pretty good run last year.

 

Is that so? Well you're the only one in the province that believes that - including MNR. 

 

Perfect
So let's stop the Atlantic salmon genocide.
Stock tens of millions coho , steel.
And continue the multiple river rehabilitation.
Win win for all .

 

Atlantics don't do well even in perfect, pristine wilderness rivers in Newfoundland, Labrador, Norway and Scotland. Anyone who thinks they're going to thrive in the Credit or Ganaraska is so badly deluded they're past help. Go with what works - coho, steelhead, and browns. Throwing atlantics into those ditches is just wasting time, money, fish and hatchery space.

 

The prospect of having a decent Atlantic salmon population is more exciting if one understands the opportunity that it creates for shore fisherman during the Summer. Other species of migrating salmonids have overlapping runs, and are almost completely absent from rivers and areas near shore during the Summer months.

 

Shoreline water off Toronto last week was 81 degrees. That's normal for this time of year, and it's why other species of trout and salmon are absent from the shore during summer. Do you really believe atlantics like swimming around in soup? They prefer water temps in the 50s. Not the 80s.

 

Besides, you can't catch what doesn't exist. If atlantics created such great opportunities for shore anglers, the piers would be littered with them - especially after 35 years and more than 7 million fish stocked so far.


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#27 NADO

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 12:54 PM

Some fact checking on a lot of these bold statements is definitely needed.

 

http://www.bringback...oration-myths/

 

Or maybe not, the mob always knows best.


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#28 NADO

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:04 PM

What it really comes down to is the charter boat industry and much of the angling public do not want the program to succeed. They will give reasons on why they think the program is doomed to fail but really it comes down to the fact that Atlantics are not fun to catch while trolling from a boat with heavy gear.


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#29 NADO

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:14 PM

Results to Date

  • Returns from the initial year of stocking (2006) were first observed in all three streams in the fall of 2008, with additional fish returning in subsequent years. The fish have been tracked in the streams and successful reproduction has been documented.
  • Increased numbers of Atlantic Salmon have been documented in the open water fishery of Lake Ontario.
  • Although not yet a self-sustaining population, the first returns were ahead of schedule and are an encouraging sign of success for the program.  Phase III of the program is looking to increase the number of returning adults with modifications to fish culture practices, continued habitat restoration, and yearling stocking in the Ganaraska River.
  • The goal of a self-sustaining population of Atlantic Salmon in Lake Ontario will take a further 10-15 years to achieve.

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#30 DILLIGAF?!

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:51 PM

Is that so? Well you're the only one in the province that believes that - including MNR. 

 

Increased number of Atlantics in the tribs is a good sign. How else are you going to interpret it? I'm all for stocking more on other species, particularly browns...I've seen how well the browns are doing out west that I wish they would do more of that here on east. Again, my opinion is of course bias towards an angler's POV.


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#31 Will

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 02:22 PM

https://www.int-res....oa/n015p265.pdf

 

The threshold for mortality in S. salar is about 23°C (Shepard 1995), although according to some other authors it could exceed 27°C, and even be as high as 29 to 30°C (Mills 1989). This value is mainly dependent on the acclimation of the fish and the duration of exposure (Shepard 1995). In salmonids, the direct effects of elevated temperatures are associated with increased metabolic demands that exhaust their energy reserves (Glebe & Leggett 1981), and may be exacerbated by other factors, including reduced disease resistance and increased susceptibility to disease (Cairns et al. 2005). Temperatures in the range of 20 to 27°C reduce resistance to disease, and thus may be indirectly lethal for S. salar (Danie et al. 1984).

 

27°C = 81° F

 

Any form of reservoir certainly isn't helping as it allows the water to heat up faster. Chances do seem slim that the Credit, Bronte, Humber will be able to provide the summer temps and oxygen content necessary for Atlantics to be able to support successful spawning runs. But it'd be amazing if a new Lake O strain developed out of this project. I get the feeling that the majority of the nay-sayers are just being political. I haven't seen a lot of well researched numbers showing why the program won't possibly work.


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#32 Ibstacle

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 04:44 PM

A lot of those golf courses on 16 mile and bronte (and even on the credit) use too much water for there ponds and sprinking systems. Thats one of the reasons why water levels are so low on those tribs (which leads to warm temperatures). And I agree with the statement above about reservoirs. The hilton falls and kelso reservoir hardly let out any water. If they didn't need so much water for their ski hill, maybe the upper 16 mile would be a better stream for brook, brown and rainbow trout. It would get an earlier salmon run to. Also, Mountsberg reservoir stops a lot of water from going into bronte creek.

 

Just my opinion and theory based on what I've seen over past years growing up here.


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#33 TI Redux

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:54 PM

14 to 20 c adult Atlantic's.
Eggs and fry 27 to 29 c they can survive.
20c 68 degrees.
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#34 Rain-bow

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:56 PM

High water temps can reduce the survival rate of fish along with the effectiveness of catch and release, but it doesn’t seem to prevent salmonids from migrating and completing spawning runs. This is something that we’ve seen for decades with the Chinook salmon here. Given the low catch-rate of Atlantics out in open water (not just upstream), I would hazard a guess that high water temps is not what’s been causing the low returns up until now.
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#35 Symmetre

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 02:14 PM

Some fact checking on a lot of these bold statements is definitely needed.

 

http://www.bringback...oration-myths/

 

Or maybe not, the mob always knows best.

 

I don't know about the mob knowing best. But 35 years of scientific evidence gathered by OMNR says this program is a failure.

 

 

What it really comes down to is the charter boat industry and much of the angling public do not want the program to succeed. They will give reasons on why they think the program is doomed to fail but really it comes down to the fact that Atlantics are not fun to catch while trolling from a boat with heavy gear.

 

Are you kidding me? It has nothing to do with atlantics not being fun to catch. It has everything to do with them not contributing to the fishery in any way whatsoever.

 

 

 

Results to Date

  • Returns from the initial year of stocking (2006) were first observed in all three streams in the fall of 2008, with additional fish returning in subsequent years. The fish have been tracked in the streams and successful reproduction has been documented.
  • Increased numbers of Atlantic Salmon have been documented in the open water fishery of Lake Ontario.
  • Although not yet a self-sustaining population, the first returns were ahead of schedule and are an encouraging sign of success for the program.  Phase III of the program is looking to increase the number of returning adults with modifications to fish culture practices, continued habitat restoration, and yearling stocking in the Ganaraska River.
  • The goal of a self-sustaining population of Atlantic Salmon in Lake Ontario will take a further 10-15 years to achieve.

 

 

Ontario has been stocking atlantics since the 1980s, not 2006.  And they've been saying it will take 10 - 15 years to have a self sustaining population of atlantics every year since the 80s. Enough excuses, time's up.

 

 

Increased number of Atlantics in the tribs is a good sign. How else are you going to interpret it? I'm all for stocking more on other species, particularly browns...I've seen how well the browns are doing out west that I wish they would do more of that here on east. Again, my opinion is of course bias towards an angler's POV.

 

Problem is they are not increased numbers at all. Returns have been consistently dismal for more than 35 years.

 

 

High water temps can reduce the survival rate of fish along with the effectiveness of catch and release, but it doesn’t seem to prevent salmonids from migrating and completing spawning runs. This is something that we’ve seen for decades with the Chinook salmon here. Given the low catch-rate of Atlantics out in open water (not just upstream), I would hazard a guess that high water temps is not what’s been causing the low returns up until now.

 

High water temps won't help anything, but you're right - even out in the open lake where that's not a factor, very very few atlantics are caught. The fish just are not there to begin with. New York proved that smolt survival was abysmal back in the 90s. That's why they gave up on them and focused on rainbows and browns. That's also why they have a great fishery today, where all we have are excuses and empty promises.


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#36 TI Redux

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 06:25 PM

Pros and cons forever..
Truth.
Big bust.
2020 let's start a real fishery !!!
Stock those hos bows and brownies
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